283. Upgrading Your Podcast Listeners into Business Clients

Having worked with thousands of business owners to create a podcast for their business, I’ve created The Recurring Results Roadmap for Podcasters™.

It’s a step-by-step guide to growing your business to 7+ figures using your podcast.

Importantly, it removes the guesswork so you know exactly what to focus on at all times to generate that recurring revenue.

The best part? It’s personalised, free and it lets you get started straight away.

Download The Recurring Results Roadmap for Podcasters™ here.

If this is your first time here, this is Should I Start A Podcast. I’m Ronsley Vaz. Each week you’ll hear me, and a star-studded guest lineup, dig deep into the podcasting process. We’ll bring you tactics, tips and tricks to use in your own podcasting journey. We’ll teach you how to build an audience. And we’ll show you how to keep them coming back, show after show.

So if you want to start a podcast, or expand your current audience, this is the show for you.

Coming up in this Should I Start A Podcast episode …

  • How can we improve our podcasts for better engagement so then we can take that engagement into clients?
  • How to use your podcast to direct people to your entire content & product ecosystem
  • The benefits of having a podcast for different businesses including a sleep business
  • What is the benefit to society of podcasts?
  • Why you need to podcast now more than ever
  • How to create a podcast if you’re not having a conversation with the listener? How can you convert them into the client?


If you’ve never heard of our work before, there are 3 things that I think you would benefit from right now…

1. Listen to this playlist of How to Podcast for Business.

2. Get the the Recurring Results Roadmap (if you haven’t already).


Here is the transcript of the entire episode for those who like to read …

Ronsley Vaz 1:17
here’s what I’d love to talk about. I’d love to talk about your listeners to clients from as a marketing activity like how can we improve our podcasts for better engagement so then we can take that engagement into clients?

Anna Vocino 1:32
Okay, so using the podcast for engagement versus well see when you said clubhouse I was like you know what clubhouse you’re right is allowing me to go much deeper I have my weekly clubhouse and then I have another group that runs a weekly clubhouse in here and I’m going to add another time to my weekly clubhouses because I I have found I have some regular listeners now right after nine years that makes sense. And we’ve put the time in and we continue to put out new content every week no new podcast episodes every week no matter what like if the podcast falls on Christmas Day. We have a new episode banked up to put out we just always have new content and I think there’s only been one time we put up a repeat episode and it was because some sort of you know technological snafu happened so but you’re right like the best place to engage sure with wonderful that we have people to listen but the best place to engage is in social media constant I have a Facebook group we have Twitter we have Instagram is a little more a little less engagement there I do more of Bible and personal engagement there and the cooking and I do all my recipe to recipe development on Instagram stories. I but clubhouse has made it where it took a little while to get it started. But now I have a place where people can check in weekly and I can hear their voice and we can talk about what’s your progress, what are your snags, I can get other people from the community I can either interview luminaries in the community who want to pop on or I can just get other folks some you know some of the admins and moderators from my community who have done this and been around for a while and can help advise and give points of view because people can really get into detail on a clubhouse and now that this is specific to I’m in a space of you know the the weight loss slash getting healthy community and they’re doing it through low carb to me, I have found over the years that when you’re in a space where there’s a high attrition rate like the diet industry I really want to engage with as many people on a personal level as I possibly can number one because they know they’re not all alone number two, just because my messaging is that this is not a diet you’re literally going to change the way that you eat and change your life because of it. So I feel like I really need to reach out and number three mostly it’s women who kind of fall off because our bodies are trickier than men and so for me that that extra level of engagement has been just one of my core values one of my core principles about making sure that I’m on social media and checking in and sometimes yes I need a break tonight but that’s kind of what’s grown everything to the point where I have a wonderful fan base slash little army that would go out and you know and they tell their friends and I feel like most of my my book sales at the holidays are people saying I’m buying 20 copies I’m giving a copy of your book to everybody I know because that’s how much it changed my life. So that level of engagement is important to me not just the podcasting thing which is what it’s all it’s the foundation it’s all built on but then these little like micro engagements I guess

Holly Shannon 4:45
it’s so interesting and and because I think it’s so cool how you are everywhere. You know you have a very consistent podcast, which must be very soothing to people like if they’re not on Um, you know, if they’re coming in, you know, at that New Year’s resolution or whatever they feel like they found their home. So I think it’s really cool what you do and that it’s, you know, you have your clubhouse rooms and your podcast, and then you know all your recipes and your books because I think it all complements each other. For me, I have my podcast and I would probably say the majority of my audience lives on LinkedIn. And that’s actually where I met Callen, who’s down in the audience there another shout out to him, because he’s so much fun. But most of the engaging that I get is on clubhouse, because people are in real time, you know, commenting on a podcast that I’ve thrown up, maybe, you know, comment that I’ve made about it or an observation. What I find interesting is that since I’ve come on clubhouse, it’s actually upped my following on LinkedIn, and Instagram, and it’s increased my downloads. So I think people are, they’re everywhere. Like before, I thought I was just through LinkedIn. But then as soon as I started on clubhouse, I saw such, you know, a rise, not gonna say exponential, but I saw a rise in everything downloads following all across the board. And I’ve definitely had more clients and more people reaching out. But I think it’s a combination, because the voice has more nuanced than LinkedIn does. Because LinkedIn falls flat, right? It’s really just text. So I think between the podcast and clubhouse, when people can really engage in a conversation with me, and realize that it’s not carefully crafted text in LinkedIn, that I actually can shoot the shit and have a real conversation about business strategy, I think that’s what’s moved the needle for me

Molly 6:59
on this topic, it just, it’s a great illustration, for me of some of the benefits of having this podcast, it’s really just been such a game changer from not only a kind of collaborative standpoint, really being known in the industry, creating a forum or platform for others to get their message out. But then also, just the interplay of levels of the leveling up, I guess you could say, of ideas. And, I mean, it’s just, I can’t even, I can’t even begin with all the things, all the benefits that have come my way, as a result of this, but particularly, I think, for me as a personal brand, because part of my offering is that the reason I started sleep as a skill was because of my own issues with my sleep, and going through my own period of insomnia, and so, but then, you know, working through that, and now having kind of quantifiable just, for me mega improvements in my sleep is certainly how it was, but then also gamifying, and further up leveling that, and so to, for other people to follow along and hear that passion and also, but the identification that like, it hasn’t always been this way. And still looking to uplevel it’s like brings people along, for the journey has been my experience. And so there’s a bonding, opportunity and vulnerability that comes out. And, and also the prescriptive nature and you know, to use that word from a form of, you know, people will come through and we have one of our main lead offerings is a sleep assessment that people go through and kind of share what’s working, what’s not working with their sleep, and then they get an auto trigger back of things specific to what they’re dealing with their sleep with resources and kind of a value give. And now I’ve linked in tons of different links to these podcasts as kind of, quote unquote prescriptive in nature, not from a prescriptive like medical term, but from just say, delivering immediate value for exactly what they’re dealing with. as and as that library grows, even being able to get more of a pinpointed Oh, well, you have this problem with XYZ. Well, we just spoke with the foremost expert on that. And here we go. Here’s

Ronsley Vaz 9:15
the link. We’d love to hear Abdul’s voice I know there’s lots of new people joining clubhouse because of the Android being open. I’ve not seen so many people with potty hatsan so welcome up, dude, I would love to hear your voice. Do you have a question?

Abdul 9:30
I want to ask. Like, what’s the benefit to society of podcasts? What’s like the, like, I know, like helps people clear their minds and positive thinking and stuff like that, but what does it like really benefits society.

Amanda 9:46
I think it just is really grounding and can be like really reassuring. I was gonna say, just from what everyone was sharing before that it’s just so nice to have like an authentic conversation. Where my audience can like really get to know me like properly and it’s like, you kind of you feel in the room with the people that are talking and part of it. And if it is a sensitive subject, or if it is something that you’re struggling with, or you’re interested in, or you’re looking for help with, then, yeah, it, it just holds that safe space. And I think the benefit for society is, knowing that you’re not alone, I think is, for example, like with mine about, like, feeling lost in the world, not really sure what your purpose is trying to find your thing, seeing everyone else, you know, comparing, because social media does that, and you just see the highlights, and it’s like, oh, everyone’s having the best time living out their passion. And I just don’t feel like I have anything and I don’t know where to start or how to find it. And then listening to something like a podcast where people do share their struggles and do share the difficulties and it’s real. and go, Oh, okay, actually, I’m not alone in this. It’s not just me thinking and feeling this way. And being feeling part of that conversation can just be so reassuring, and give people the confidence to then take action and move forward, which I feel could probably apply to sort of anyone’s nation area as well. So yeah, these are just my thoughts. Yeah, I

Anna Vocino 11:15
was gonna say, thinking back on kind of the genesis of podcasting in the history of podcasting, you know, it was not too long ago, that the ability to have a even a long form mp3 and the bandwidth to be able to download it, you know, everything was done over radio waves, which means you had to sell advertising, which means that everything had to be short little blips and bursts and things weren’t necessarily the most organic, long form conversation. You know, Howard Stern definitely changed that with moving to Sirius and being able to use the language he wanted, with the length of time that he wanted with a guest. And podcasting kind of shifted that. And you could do anything you wanted, you could produce a short little comedy piece, which is what I did originally back in 2007, to 2009 when I was doing Yoda and me. And it was comedic and edited. And, you know, it was an outlet, a creative outlet. But then there’s also long form conversations that you get to have. So my rule with anything having to do with internet podcast is it’s got to either entertain, educate, or inspire, for me to be able to put it out there or else like, what’s the point like, I don’t want to put stuff out. To be fair, if you were to read over my Twitter feed, you would see me bitching at a few brands over the years who who manage things shitty on a personal level for me, but for the most part 99% of time, I like to run it through the filter of is this podcast, either going to entertain, educate, or inspire and hopefully a combination of the three? If I’m doing it right, and I’m sticking true to my core values in my voice?

Holly Shannon 12:51
You know, I would love to add something to that, you know, Abdul is such a deep question, because you could look at it from a lot of different vantage points. But what I love about podcasting is it’s a democratization of our, of speech, of ideas, of voices, and it’s available to anyone and everyone, and there’s no barrier to entry. I mean, there’s a lot of podcast hosting platforms that are free. And everybody who’s on this platform at the moment has phones, they have the ability to record and to speak, to record and publish their thoughts. And I think we learn so much from each other. And if the only outlets were paid outlets, so you could only watch television programs that hand choose who’s going to anchor and speak or produce or direct. And we know there’s a lot of bias in those places. Or a paid radio station, there’s no place for everybody else. And I feel like podcasting for the rest of us. I just needed to contribute to that to what you set up do.

Unknown Speaker 14:02
I think that my stance on is one of our intentions for every podcast that we release with sleep is a skill is that it’s leaving people with practical takeaways that they can, you know, really begin to put to use relatively immediately as it relates to their sleep, so that their time is both educational, but also really productive and in a and there can be that real hands on approach. So there will be I’ll have one of the other things that I definitely have benefited from is I also I do a weekly release of the podcast and a weekly newsletter. And by having the two it seems to be a nice interplay so that it can also people that listen to the podcast, often read the newsletter and they’ll respond and kind of it’s like another way for them to engage and then I’ll get These responses, they’re like, Oh, I tried what you mentioned in like, last week’s podcast, and this worked, this didn’t work, I’m trusting that, you know, it’s like allows them to be in the game, no matter, their financial background. And for me, that’s really important coming from, you know, very low income, kind of bracket growing up, and really not having some of the opera or optionality that, you know, to, to delve into some of these areas that might not have been working for me to then have that ability to access some of this information and still be in the game despite kind of an economic barrier, or what have you is just, really, I think, an important one that speaks to me,

Ronsley Vaz 15:43
here’s the thing that gets me every time I kind of like question. If I’m going to say something, or do a club, pause, or put a podcast out there, I think that my ancestors and your ancestors did not have the opportunity to say whatever they wanted to whenever they wanted to about the things that they cared about the most, and have the people that really cared about that topic to listen to that and not be sort of, you know, crucified if lack of a better word, at this point, for for, for saying what they what they said. So I feel like if I have a longer view, or my, if my memory serves me, right, and I look at at the past, and I look at the privilege that my ancestors gave me, and your ancestors gave you and everyone else’s, like they worked extremely hard to give us the platform we have today. So with that in mind, I kind of think, what kind of topics do I feel, are not being spoken about, and people to Hannah’s point, initially was like, what, how, what are people having conversations and just in their heads, and they feel alone, while they’re having that they think that it’s only happening to them. And I have a show called the psychology of entrepreneurship, which is a show where I decipher or break down the psychology of our decisions as entrepreneurs. And I speak to a whole range of entrepreneurs from, you know, artists, athletes, academics, mothers, I believe mothers are the original entrepreneurs, if they fail at what they do like this, it’s just someone dies. I think I think there’s all these elements to entrepreneurship. And I’ve interviewed people from who actually I’ve interviewed recently in January interviewed a few entrepreneurs who are on death row, and they are artists poets, but they just happened to be on death row and they happen to be in a space where they’re showing their art to the world. So it’s a fascinating it’s a fascinating perspective when I see what couldn’t be done before and I go well, I have the opportunity what it’s let’s let’s see what happens from it and not having all the pieces laid out because there’s no way that I would know all the pieces It looks like a great plan looking backwards. But usually it’s just like this had the conversation and see where it goes and, and be in the moment and that’s that’s probably something that I crave. A lot.



Ronsley Vaz 18:54
What kind of conversations Do you think we should be having in our own spheres? Right? Everyone’s got their own sphere in here, Holly, Anna, Molly, and up to myself, we all got our own little spheres. What kind of conversations should we all be having in our spheres that are not being had? And how do we facilitate those conversations?

Holly Shannon 19:19
my podcast is, is very different, I think because my podcast is just it’s about company culture. It’s about relationships in the workplace. It’s about how the C suite establishes a mission and a purpose for their business. And, you know, they think everybody will feel the same way. And what I find so interesting is I try in my podcast, to dig deeper and get tactical with different leaders and founders. But what I find is that there’s, there’s a discrepancy in how people feel about their jobs. And kaelin and I have had our our virtual conversations if you will through LinkedIn and and you know people hate their jobs and they hate their bosses so there’s there’s a disparity there and I think these kinds of platforms like clubhouse, allow people to get into a deeper conversation about it and maybe have more truths come out more answers come out that I can put to the test in my podcast, at least I’m trying to find that marriage, it’s not it’s not perfect, I’m definitely struggling with that trying to get it right. So that when people are listening now I actually learned something, I’m not an expert in the area, you know, I just care about it.

Unknown Speaker 21:02
One, you know, certainly carving out a clear, hopefully intention for each of our podcasts can help I think guide, what would fit and what one. So since my intention, you know, is to ensure that at the end of every podcast, people leave with those practical takeaways to make a difference with their sleep, then, that brings about this whole wide breadth of topics and areas that I think also are mind boggling to many people have not even realizing I know certainly when I was dealing with what I was dealing with my sleep, I didn’t realize how much certain things would interplay with the results for my sleep, you know, kind of unexpected areas that can impact that quality. And so for us, we’re looking at really wild like forward thinking elements of tech, we’ve got sleep robots, we got, you know, different tech stacks that we’re bringing in. So we do lean into that a lot. But then there’s also our intersection of sleep as a skill is meant to be that interplay of technology, accountability, behavioral change, so really leaning into those three, you know, kind of elements of that tripod. And so that can also bring itself to, you know, habit change experts, or kind of the mental blocks that could come up there. But as well as looking at kind of accountability structures and how to gamify this and, you know, the whole wide reaching things, but yeah, I think it really does. It’s a platform that allows you to explore in a way that other platforms might not as much,

Ronsley Vaz 22:41
Drew, how are you I would love to hear your voice.

Drew 22:44
Yeah, doing doing very well thank you for bringing me up one other thing as it relates to the upgrading your listeners, I’m the client in this case, so I don’t necessarily have the perspective of trying to sell to people but you know, Anna, along with any in the podcast that they do, I’ve been a client of theirs. And I would, I would say it’s about building trust, it’s about not being overly pushy, neither, they’re probably the worst at not being pushy, they probably could do stand to be maybe a little more not pushy, but a little more active with their marketing, but I would but I trust the products they they showed me results I lost a lot of weight, listening to their podcast, and then the products lined up with their with their value. So I would say you know have have the have what you’re selling line up with your values and you know, provide that trust upfront. And I think that to me, is what sold me

Anna Vocino 23:48
when people are ready they come to you and that’s why I love podcasts clubhouse all the information that we were able to put out there is you know, as long as you’re doing your SEO right, when the people are ready, they will find you and drew it’s great to hear your voice hear from the from the groups, I feel like I’ve known you for forever now. And that’s the beautiful thing about engaging with listeners and talking to people and being on Twitter and being on clubhouse. It’s made me really happy to have that opportunity. But drew I appreciate that you said that because I know that there’s a lot of there’s always gonna be snake oil sales people out there. And so for Vinny and I it was really important and I think everybody in this room it’s really important to have whatever it is that you’re selling line up with your values because you feel it you feel it when there’s like something or like it’s not quite right. Like, we’ll get a sponsorship from a thing. We’re like, Oh, we could make that work. And then ultimately, we’re like, no, it’s not worth you know, a few extra bucks just to like chill something. So I always think that the more you narrow your focus in the sense that like if this really feels right, do it. If it feels lonely, kind of right. Just say no to it because it’s not it’s gonna something’s gonna happen. It’s gonna backfire. Frankly, putting products out there, there’s too much development and time and effort and energy spent. And you know Vinnie and I, we each bootstrap our own companies, we don’t have investors or anything like that. So it’s too way too much effort to put out something that you’re going to half ass. So it seems overwhelming to get started. But you know, just start to do it. And I think that as you clarify your voice and your message, so to where you clarify the offerings that you have. And since we have this real time feedback, we’re able to put a podcast out there, we’re able to see like, what’s hitting what’s not hitting? What, where are people’s pain points? What do you need help with? To me, that’s the most important thing, because that drives my content, number one, number two, it helps me retain people because this is important, because, yes, everybody knows how to follow a diet, but nobody wants to follow a diet. So it has to not be about that, like in the in this space. It has to be what are the real changes people can make in their lives like bronze, you’re talking about culturally, some folks are not going to give it rice, just like some folks are not going to give up corn, some folks are not going to give up, Peter, like it’s just not going to happen. So what can you do within the framework of people’s lives to go, let’s make this a doable thing. And if and get you in touch with your feelings and your motivation behind stuff. It’s not just about taking these actions, because if it were just about taking the actions, everybody would do it. And so I’m more about the retention of what’s happening to make you want to light a match under your progress. And talking about that kind of stuff and having those kinds of like you were saying about the uncomfortable conversations. And frankly, sometimes it’s a well, you know, you guys make it seem easy, because you talk about it. Like it’s easy. And I’m glad that when we get that feedback, so I can go Hold on, hold on. Let’s parse this out. Because I don’t ever want to give the impression that like, Oh, it’s just easy. You guys just cut out sugars and grains relied on euroscience zero, like it doesn’t work that way. It just doesn’t work that way. So I want to always be open and honest and have these conversations and part of the having the groups it also keeps me accountable. I like being in there. I’m a human to you heard me with the aura ring. I wonder what the aura ring I hate watches in the whoops, and I want to wear the ring. But is that the right thing, but then it doesn’t track exercise. I go down the rabbit hole too. I love podcasts. I love researching this stuff. I hope that the next generation that the Gen Z kids are taking all this information, they could take all this information start the next like multi billion dollar companies, because we’re all putting our shit out there that hopefully we’re cutting down on the younger generations learning curve. Anyway, that’s my piece.

Ronsley Vaz 27:39
Krishnan would love to hear your voice before we land this plane. Welcome to clubhouse. How are you?

Krishnan 27:45
My question is, usually, when I hear podcasts, especially in the b2b space, most of us have interview in the form of pot podcast. So if we don’t have a conversation, how can we have listeners? And if we don’t have listeners, how can we convert them into a client? So that was my question.

Cliff Ravenscraft 28:05
Okay, so the question is this, if you’re not having a conversation or conversation with the listener, how can you convert them into the client? Is that the question?

Krishnan 28:14
Yeah, absolutely. Right.

Cliff Ravenscraft 28:17
Okay, so in that case, what I would say is, you have to be the initiator of the conversation. So one of the things that you can do with your content is create a compelling, engaging piece of content that will pique the curiosity of your audience, knowing what it is that their struggles are, what their pain points are, something that they feel very passionate about, that kind of presses a button that says, You know what, this is something that I have dealt with over and over again, I have some very strong feelings, create some content around those topics. And then invite your, your audience to engage with you, throughout as you’re having the conversation in your creating the content, speak to that speak to the one person who’s listening to your audience. And so one of the things that I would encourage you to do is whether your podcast is an interview podcast, or a solo, hosted podcast doesn’t matter. But as the host of the show, I would encourage you to imagine that there’s only one person who is listening to the podcast. And when you speak to your audience, which I encourage you to do, speak directly to your audience. Don’t say, Hey, guys, Hey, everyone, hey, but speak you, Hey, I know that you’re listening to this. And when you hear that, you know, my guest just said this. And here’s what I know, that’s going through your mind, as you’re listening to this conversation that Joe and I are having here. You might be thinking, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, say something that you know, your audience tends to think over and over again. And then I might say something like, you know, and that’s exactly how I used to Think about this. However, I want to encourage you, what if you know and then ask a question, what if this? Have you ever thought about that? And in fact, I want to invite you it. Open up your email on your app right now, pause this episode and send me an email. And let me know if you’ve ever experienced this, or have you ever considered this? Answer this question. And then give them your email address Cliff at Cliff ravenscraft. Calm and then go back into the content and get back into the conversation if, if it’s an interview with someone else, but always take times break into if you’re having an interview with somebody break in for just a moment and and speak to that one person. And, and say, I know this might be what you’re thinking, you know, and for hate for this person who’s you might say to your guests, hey, for the person who’s listening to this episode, right? Now, here’s what might be going through their head, what would you say to this person right now, and ask them to speak to that person. So then what happens is, as you’re going through the, through the episode, that person who is listening as you are listening, throughout this entire piece of content, if I’m doing solo hosted, I will be breaking in and talking to you directly. If I’m having an interview or a conversation with a guest on my show, I might break in and talk to you Krishnan, the listener of my podcast. And so it feels like the entire time I’ve had a conversation with you. And then when I wrap up the episode, I am going to do a very strong call to action. I said, Okay, now you’ve started out this episode, when you heard us talk. You might have thought this. And now you’ve heard these experiences over here, I need to know what’s going through your mind. Have you ever thought about what it is you want to create in this world? Do you know what you want to create? What’s standing in your way? Here’s what I want you to do. I want you to email me right now, I asked you to email me earlier. But just in case you didn’t listen, then because you were driving, I want you to stop this recording after this thing is done. I want you to hit the Email button. Send me an email Cliff at Cliff I want to know what is it that you want to create in this world? And what is the number one single greatest struggle that’s currently currently holding you back from moving towards that dream becoming a reality. I can’t wait to hear from you. Talk to you soon. And then I go on. Now what I’ve done is I’ve had the conversation with the guests there. And then I put very strong call to actions. And then as soon as somebody sends me a direct message, an email or a comment on a blog posts, if I publish the link to the episode and and somebody says, Hey, thank you so much, I really appreciate this. Don’t say hey, well, thank you so much. And let me know, our Thank you for letting me know you really enjoyed it. Whenever somebody emails you, you always want to hit reply, speak to whatever it is they say. And then ask them a question. This is the number one thing that I did as a podcast consultant many years ago, is people would say, Cliff, you know, I can never seem to get any engagement from my audience. I’ve, you know, been publishing over 100 episodes, I’ve got 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of downloads, but nobody ever really sends I just don’t get any engagement. And I said, Wait a second, you’re telling me that nobody’s ever sent you an email, nobody’s ever sent you a direct message nobody’s ever sent, sent you a comment on your post? Well, of course, every now and then. And that’s like, Well tell me about one of them. Tell me the first name, last name, email address, and give me one, two or three personal details about that human being just one of the people that have ever left you a comment or an email. And they’re like, Oh, I can’t think of anybody off the top of my head. And that’s because they didn’t take the time to build the relationship that was open to them at the time. And so what I recommend is if somebody says, Hey, Cliff, I just listened to Episode 661 of your podcasts all my gosh, it came just in the nick of time, I so needed to hear that thank you so much. Keep up the great work. I love the inspiring content that you do. And that let’s just say that came to me as an email. What most people will do is they’ll hit reply and say, oh, wow, thank you so much. It really means a lot to me to know that the content that I create is making a difference in people’s lives. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. I hope you have a blessed and wonderful week. And then they hit send. And that is the biggest missed opportunity that don’t ever send an email to somebody who’s reached out to you without asking a question to continue the conversation. So I might actually hit reply and say exactly everything I just said. And then I instead of saying, Hey, have a great week, I would say hey, let me ask you this. What was the number one thing? The number one insight you most got out of this episode? And why was it So timely for you in this season of your life, I’d love to hear more about it sincerely, you know, hit reply, let me know, I’ll stand by, you know, I can’t wait to hear back from you. And so carry on the conversation, that person might come back and say, Well, here’s what happened, you know, my wife just was diagnosed with something and you know, and she’s going in for a test on next Tuesday. And we don’t know what the things are. And we’re dealing with a lot of anxiety it’s just I was really got a sense of peace after listening to your episode, and blah, blah, blah, blah. And then so just thanks again. And then I might write back Oh, wow, I’m you know, somebody who might typically write back oh, you know, what, I’m really gonna send some thoughts and some healing prayers your way and, and pray for your peace or whatever and, and hope everything works out and hit send. And again, that is a total missed opportunity. Instead, what you do is you actually take this information, and you take and put on your calendar next Tuesday morning, Christian’s wife is going in for a test and, and there’s a great unknown about what diagnosis. And I’m going to put down a reminder on my calendar that morning, to go directly out of my way to say Krishnan, it’s Tuesday morning, I know that your wife is going in for that test today, you probably won’t have the results until later in the afternoon, or maybe later in the week, just want to let you know, I’ve been thinking about you. And if I can ever be of any encouragement to you feel, feel free to reach out to me, and I’ll send that as a separate email. But right after putting that on my calendar, as a reminder, I’m going to still send them back and say, Hey, I’m going to keep you on my thoughts and prayers. And then I’m going to ask another question, I want to get in and learn about these people, I want to open that conversation, I want to open that dialogue. And until this is something that is not scalable, because I don’t have enough time to carry on and learn more about these human beings. I’m going to continue to do this. I’m going to continue to ask question after question after question, because this is how relationships are built. That’s all I have. Thanks.

Ronsley Vaz 37:09
That was so valuable. listening to you, Cliff, and I’m so glad I asked you. We asked you the question, ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for interacting with us. And thank you so much for being on clubhouse, and being part of this conversation. Join the club. Should I start a podcast every Tuesday, we have a conversation for about an hour around this campfire and we have some of my amazing friends that come and join us so please follow the club and join us in our next session. Until then, thank you thank you. Thank you for everyone that was here and contributed the conversation. Much much love.


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