309. How to have the real diverse conversations with Kiri-Maree Moore

309. How to have the really diverse conversations with Kiri-Maree Moore

Learn how to have the really diverse conversations

Every person wants to make an impact on the planet. Whether it is through our family, through our businesses, and even through our podcasts. On this episode of the show we are talking with Kiri-Maree Moore who cares deeply about having real & deep conversations. She is on a mission to focus on doing just the 1% to make the change we want to see in the world.

In this episode you will:

  • Learn how Kiri-Maree Moore travels the world and runs multi multimillion dollar businesses
  • Understand how important your voice is
  • Learn how having amazing conversations became a global phenomenon
  • Take a deeper look at the journey of putting one’s voice out there
  • We answer a question about the basics of “just inviting them”
  • Rethink your podcast – how you do it and why you do it
  • Understand how to show up when you have a conversation
  • Hear us talk about differences and why different voices are needed
  • Learn the foundations of asking the question “what are you taking from that?”
  • Think differently about having new conversations
  • We talk in-depth about being grateful for the opportunity to have conversations and the process to having the best ones.

All this and more, on this week’s episode of  Should I Start A Podcast.

Make sure you listen to the end … I’ll break down this episode to give you 3 small steps you can execute right now to help you take this listening experience into execution experience. Also, if you know a business owner that needs to hear an episode about why a podcast is the best business development tool, please share an episode with them.

Pretty Please. Enjoy the show.

After you listen to this episode I would love you to take these 3 small steps that will help you have the most open & interesting conversations on your podcast:

  1. What is the uncomfortable
  2. What is the mission
  3. Who are the smart people

What you pick as your strategies to grow will depend on where you are at in your business. Pick the right strategy for where you are at and not where you want to be.

These are 3 small steps that if you execute, irrespective of where you are at in your business and podcasting journey will make a huge impact on your making your podcast more profitable & more impactful.

If this is the first episode you’ve listened to all the way to the end or if you are a regular, thank you … I love that you are here. Check out our back catalogue on  ShouldIStartAPodcast.com, subscribe to the show and give me a review and rating, it really helps us get found more.

If you are a business owner podcaster and want to join others just like you in a group where we share tactics & ideas on what’s working (or not) for us when it comes to using our podcast in the best possible way. For more on that go to wearepodcast.com/group … it is free.

We Are Podcast 2022 – It is happening this year. For the latest announcements on Australia’s first podcasting conference for business owners, join the free group wearepodcast.com/group

Stay tuned next week when we going to cover <the topic of family & being the voice of owning how our children turn out with Jaime & Jim Sheils**>**. We cover lots including saying sorry and just starting out with the conversations that matter. So, don’t forget to subscribe to the show to get that episode as soon it gets released. Until then, much love.

If you’ve never heard of our work before, there are 3 things that I think you would benefit from right now…

1. Listen to this playlist of How to Podcast for Business.

2. Get the the Recurring Results Roadmap (if you haven’t already).


Having worked with thousands of business owners to create a podcast for their business, I’ve created The Recurring Results Roadmap for Podcasters™.

It’s a step-by-step guide to growing your business to 7+ figures using your podcast.

Importantly, it removes the guesswork so you know exactly what to focus on at all times to generate that recurring revenue.

The best part? It’s personalised, free and it lets you get started straight away.

Download The Recurring Results Roadmap for Podcasters™ here.

If this is your first time here, this is Should I Start A Podcast. I’m Ronsley Vaz. Each week you’ll hear me, and a star-studded guest lineup, dig deep into the podcasting process. We’ll bring you tactics, tips and tricks to use in your own podcasting journey. We’ll teach you how to build an audience. And we’ll show you how to keep them coming back, show after show.

So if you want to start a podcast, or expand your current audience, this is the show for you.

Here is the transcript of the entire episode done by a.i. for those who like to read …


conversations, podcast, voice, human intelligence, people, important, table, indicators, questions, listen, thinking, culture, journey, world, building, business, learn, put, results, awareness


Kiri Maree Moore, Ronsley Vaz, Anna Vocino

Ronsley Vaz  00:08

indicator one this is launch control. Please advise when the pre flight checklist is complete with indicator one flight is complete. All indicators read Green.

Anna Vocino  00:20

This is should I start a podcast a show for business owners looking for tips, tricks and ingenious hacks when it comes to growing a business using their podcast. This is your host Ronsley. He’s interviewed more than 1400 people and has been listened to over 5 million times in 133 countries, a TED speaker, author and a podcast purist who believes that we can use our voices to grow our business and our influence, you know, because every conversion in any business always happens in a conversation. And now Ronsley.

Ronsley Vaz  01:03

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Should I start a podcast today, I have a treat for you like every other day. This this live is coming to you from Croatia. And I’m so excited to have Kyra Marie more on the show. But in today’s episode, we’re gonna talk about how important your voice is the journey of actually putting your voice out there and getting the reps in doing a podcast to address a need a need on the planet, we’re gonna get into that I’m gonna also talk about a mistake that we make as business owners with a podcast. And that is forgetting to make sure your audio in your podcast is of the same volume. I’ll talk about that on a dress that towards the end of the show. But if you’re looking for an edited version of this recording, you’ll find it at Should I start a podcast, you’ll find that on all the podcast platforms. I’m very excited to introduce Karen Barrymore, who has got two podcasts, one of which she does live. It’s called the decision table podcast and global human intelligence podcast as well. And I’ve known her for a while I’ve hung out with her. And she is an amazing human being. So I’m excited to get this going. Here, Mary, how are you?

Kiri Maree Moore  02:15

It’s so good to be here. And thank you for the privilege to you know, have a conversation again with you. I love our conversations. And I’m sure this is going to be no exception to it being an awesome one. So I’m doing good. I’m in Split Croatia right now. So you know, it’s pretty warm over here. And you’re

Ronsley Vaz  02:38

you kind of made this decision to work and travel the world and have fun while doing it. What has that journey been like from initially starting it off? Like when you start? Because that’s something like the reason I’m asking the question is like, as entrepreneurs, we have these dreams of what freedom looks like, but we kind of don’t take action on the dreams. And do you feel like taking action on those dreams allowed the world to open up for you?

Kiri Maree Moore  03:03

Firstly, I am married to someone that you know very well. And he is a bit of a squirrel likes to be very busy all the time. And so it was not really an option right at the start if I wanted to keep my marriage together. And so I thought, how can I make it not just something I kind of have to do. But something I’d love to do and I never had kids to sort of you do work you then do kids, you’d then do your partnership. It was always about how do we do this as an ecosystem as an a journey. And that began our nomadic journey. And one of the things I love that came out of that Ronsley was the fact that I got to have amazing conversations to amazing, and I mean, amazing humans across the globe. And I think that that was something that doesn’t cost me anything to have a conversation. And yet you can learn so much from it. And I think that became what came out of that was I felt a little selfish, almost, because I got to have these amazing conversations. But you didn’t get to hear those. And I think that was the thing that sort of was like what if I was to bring these conversations to the wider environment that you could literally listen over my shoulder and listen in on it.

Ronsley Vaz  04:28

When you think back about all the cool conversations you’ve had recorded and not recorded. What which ones come to mind? What what do you think about?

Kiri Maree Moore  04:37

I think one of the most amazing things with conversations is those that we have over a meal those that we have over a coffee, those that sort of you think no one else is listening, but you just go deep in and I wanted to be able to have those conversations, and then to remember some of those things and then maybe help others to learn something from the conversation. I just got to have and I think that was the thing that I realized it’s really easy to have a conversation with someone, all you need to do is invite them. And I have had the privilege of closed doors with former presidents of countries, I’ve had the privilege of spending time with just phenomenal entrepreneurs, to the everyday person who might be doing something amazing in the village of Fiji. And I wanted to bring all of that. And I didn’t really know how to do that in a way that was going to bring it out to the world better. And that’s kind of where I was like, Well, everyone keeps saying it to me, you need to get podcasts and I put together podcasts. But here’s the cool thing. There’s actually two reasons to why I do the podcast. And I think this is really important. The global human intelligence, that’s my voice, that’s just everything you get whatever is popping out of my brain. In that moment, that decision table was a place, you know, those moments when people say you should go speak to this person, or you need to connect with that person. Ronsley Like you, I’m an amazing introvert. And I was like, but what do I talk to them about? How do I start a conversation. And so I had this brilliant idea, okay, if you want to talk to me, if you want to connect, and maybe we’ll go somewhere with this. But something that’s really important to me, my life is for you to be a giver. So if you’re willing to give, then you’re willing to come on my show, we will actually have a conversation where we can deep dive, and I’m really going to get to know whether or not we’re going to connect further on. And it was the best thing I ever did was do that show

Ronsley Vaz  06:50

the kind of conversations as well that I’ve learned to having, which I would normally probably not necessarily have just like, you know, just given off the cuff because I’m kind of put in this environment that I forced to sort of show up, I put my introverted side into my little pocket and just kind of like, show up for this. How do you show up when you kind of have these interviews?

Kiri Maree Moore  07:10

I don’t think of it as an interview, I think of it as a conversation. And I go, how would I show up if I was just going to hang out with you with a cup of coffee, and have a conversation. That’s how I show up on the show and the whole thing. My only outcome out of it is this. What if I could role model that it’s as easy as having a conversation with someone that you could learn something from them doesn’t matter what distinctions they can wear. So if they look different, sound different, really into things that are really different to you, you can learn from this other human being. And and so that’s social proof. That really, it’s about having a conversation. And we can always learn one thing. So my question that is only question the same on every decision table is this question. Okay. So from our conversation today, what are you taking from that? Here’s the amazing thing. I’ve never met this person before. I have only just had a really amazing conversation with them. But there’s always something I can learn from that. And I think that’s a powerful thing, that if we’re going to change what’s happening across the globe, it starts with a conversation. And that conversation is as easy as showing up on a link and having a conversation online.

Ronsley Vaz  08:26

When you think about conversations that you want to have that are not being had, right? What are those conversations that we need to look at? Yeah, I

Kiri Maree Moore  08:35

think part of that is having a new conversation, right? Like, it’s easy to continue having the same conversations with people that look like you sound like you and are doing the same thing. It’s always nice having fan clubs, right? Like they, it’s good boosts the ego, whatever it is, what is difficult is when we have a new conversation, and if we are going to do things that are different going forward and disrupt the patterns that are not working for us across culture right now, then we have to learn to have a different conversation, a new conversation with different people at the table. And honestly, that’s actually not that easy for many to have or to do. So I want to just show different ways in which we can role model that in simple ways that anyone can do anyone could have a conversation with anyone online and press record and then put it up to a podcast. That’s what I’ve done. And, you know, I really are grateful for the relationships that I’ve built from it. And grateful for the opportunity that has opened up because I’ve been willing just to have a simple conversation.

Ronsley Vaz  09:45

The lots of conversations that you have conversations where sometimes I mean, you mentioned that if someone looks like you and and talks like you it’s like the conversation. We want to have conversations that we’re putting maybe someone disagrees with us. How do we have have those conversations? What do we keep in mind? When we’re having those conversations? How do we probably allow the conversations to unfold? And maybe keep an open mind while having them? What is your process?

Kiri Maree Moore  10:11

Like? Yeah, I think that’s a great question. Because I think it’s easy when you have it with like minded people, you know, this sort of questions, you know, where the conversation is probably gonna go the hardest is when you’ve got people that maybe are in industries that you have no idea about. But I think there’s common patterns, you know, we all care deeply about something, what is it that you care about this, this things that frameworks we can take a conversation through, and I’ve got lots of different ones in which we can do that. And I also say that let’s have lenses, rather than, you know, going with your set questions. And going, this is where we’re taking the conversation. I always know, like I said, the outcome to what I want from a conversation. And mostly honestly, the outcome is, Oh, I wonder if we’re going to do this journey together, going forward? I wonder, what’s the one thing that we could connect on, that we could make some change and get something happening? What is it that I’m learning from this person that I didn’t know before? If you go with an open mind, there’s so much you can learn from a conversation. And it’s not daunting. But I think if you go with a closed mind, knowing that you know what type of person they are, you know what they’re going to be into, then you there’s not that willingness to keep evolving. And I think that when we see differences at the table, we see that as a disadvantage, I see it as an advantage, I see it as a secret advantage to maybe they’ve got the secret sauce, to what you don’t know yet. But when you do, it’s going to be a good thing. I also think that disagreeing isn’t me getting upset with you, it’s me getting stronger to what I believe, or it’s me going, I’m questioning what I’m thinking right now. And I’m okay with that if you’re okay, because I’m not going to learn what I don’t know, if we’re not willing to have this conversation. And if things have to change at the table, we have to become comfortable with the uncomfortable. We have to do some of these tough conversations.

Ronsley Vaz  12:31

There’s so many things that you mentioned there. One is the table. One is having the conversations that are difficult, and the other is being sort of being open minded and being present. When you’re having those conversations. I feel like there are topics that you care about is the 1% there are these these initiatives that you’re that you care very, very deeply about leadership as well. I wonder if you could sort of summarize a couple of things. One is, is it from a business perspective that you do? And how does the podcasts kind of help you achieve those goals? You know,

Kiri Maree Moore  13:06

one of the things that I do is, I literally have smart people make smarter decisions, right, and create sustainable solution pathways to narrow that gap from problem to solution. And what I love about the podcast in that way, is that it helps me to have these conversations, maybe conversations with people that I normally wouldn’t. So again, I might learn something new. But it also helps to really cement some of the things that I think is so important right now, you know, one of the initiatives that you mentioned was the 1% movement. This is what our whole world is about right now. This is my belief, right? Is that if everyone did their 1%, I did my 1% You did your own percent Mary down the road does her 1% We actually would shift what is happening across culture across the globe, from problem to solution. And so you know, in this big initiative, might be goal on that is to get a billion names by 20 to 52. And that would be so they predict a 10th of the population. Now, do you think if a 10th of the population, were making decisions that added value to the human race, not take away that we would actually maybe change something that is happening right now. So one of the things is, I can talk to you one by one right beside each other. But I can talk to many and have a voice to the masses, by you know, being able to have conversations on a podcast and the reason I have two is because they’re very, very different podcasts. One is, you know, very much, you know, having people that I don’t know at my table, the other one is These amazing humans that I do know that maybe you don’t know. And then I have them at my table and the global human intelligence podcast. And then I will really dig deep on some of those learnings that we had from that conversation and then go down rabbit holes in just give more thinking around that. And I’m really appreciate having a platform where if you don’t want to listen to me, I’m real good with that. You don’t have to listen to the podcasts. That’s the good thing about it, right. But if you want to listen to maybe some new thinking, maybe some other ways in which people are doing it, or I’m finding out that is working in business and in changing what is happening in culture, then maybe you’d want to listen to the podcast.


Hey, this is Elizabeth McIntyre. I’m the CEO of thinkbook, Australia, host of our podcast and leader of amazing humans, I’m on the inside of we are podcast members, or as we like to call it the way Emily, if you are thinking about growing that business, using your podcast, and your online presence. Come join us on the inside. I would love to meet you, James and Ronsley coaches to get those recurring results in our business. If you want that roadmap, which we all follow to get those recurring results, you can download [email protected] are podcast.com. Now back to the show.

Ronsley Vaz  16:32

Right, I mean, there’s one of the things that I have here on on a little post it note here is I use my voice because a lot of my ancestors didn’t get a chance to use it is and I wonder what parts of that do you resonate when I when I read read that out about our ancestors, not necessarily having the opportunity to have a voice in a lot of the conversations,

Kiri Maree Moore  16:50

I was that kid that didn’t have a voice. And because of that, you know, there was a lot of things systems power play many different things that meant that I didn’t feel I had a voice and I lost what I was meant to do and why. And I never want anyone else to feel like that I definitely don’t want my kids to grow up thinking they can’t do or be or have a voice in a way that they want to and choose to, to make a difference. And so for me, you know, I didn’t want that pattern to continue. And for that, to stop, I needed to find my own voice. And you know, my work that I do, I get to have a voice with many, and help others to find their voice. What I love about the podcast world is that it has given me the opportunity to share that. And to give more voice to maybe what would have only been heard by a couple of people. I think one of the other things that I think of is, you know, through all of the conversations I’ve had, there are things that you learn that I just would never have if I hadn’t asked questions. And I think, you know, the way we ask questions with in the systems that have been of the past in the conversations in the past, even the principles and like if I think of leadership in itself, there was a set way in which you did it an accepted way. And I think we have got to start having conversations, bringing the real conversations, the real questions that many of us are asking into a place where it’s safe to have that out in the world. And I hope if there’s nothing else anyone ever gets from the conversations I have, that they see that it is okay to have these conversations, it’s okay to ask questions. It’s not okay to pull the other person down. It’s not okay. It’s okay to disagree. But it’s not okay to pull their thinking down and a lot of the old systems and a lot of the old way we did unless you thought the same way.

Ronsley Vaz  19:00

You mentioned at the start of this part where you had 100 conversations in a few months. And you were doing it to gather data. So here’s what I’d love to ask you on that. What did you learn? And how did you set it up to ask those questions? And what were you looking for?

Kiri Maree Moore  19:15

So every month was because I actually haven’t got them done yet. But I’ve got all the information for it. And I wanted to write three white papers on three different specific areas. One is the new approach the need for a new approach. That was one month’s theme. The next one was a secret advantage of human intelligence. That was the next one. And then the third one was looking through the Global lens of humanity as stakeholders. I just take conversations around those, or month, you know, just random leaders, asking what they were thinking and how this was for them and to look at the patterns of what is, do we need a new approach? Reality was every single one said we needed a new approach? Are we getting smarter humans? Or are we just expecting and afraid of AI getting smarter? These are questions that I think we need to start asking, right? If we’re making questions, you know, building our businesses, organizations, companies, are we actually building something that’s going to give us a sustainable future? Or is it just fixing a quick fix? Interesting enough, when asking some of these questions, people who are building out what seemed pretty cool things, were starting to question even what they were building out. And I think that this shows that these are important things. And cultural indicators are really important. But we don’t have indicators that we have as KPIs. So think about it, right? When we want to think about retention in our business, what do we do leads in leads out, you know, time they’re staying with us, whatever we look at that we we know what those numbers are, they become really important to us. My concern is, and something I wanted to prove, with the data that I had, and continue to prove, as I’m building out things, is the importance of setting cultural indicators and other words, things like human capital, we know that it’s important to put into our team to look after our team to we keep indicators on that. We do know that, you know, we need to work hard, but we also need to play hard. We need to have space to learn place to develop, how are we showing that as we’re building culture out some of these things that we’ve done, because that’s how everyone’s done it? Do we really know if that’s important or not. And so that’s why I did really specific conversations around specific themes, to gather data to start getting, just be able to prove that there’s a need for us maybe to start looking in on this, to start doing things differently.

Ronsley Vaz  22:13

You mentioned culture. And I want to sort of maybe give that little bit of time. Because I feel like that is a huge part of what we can take forward, especially with our conversations and because conversations have always been this way of passing stories down. Right. And it’s been have, it’s been had in different spaces. And it’s been had, I mean, this is probably the generation now where the previous like the grandmothers and the great grandmas are not necessarily part of the unit. What used to be the case, what parts of culture do you think we kind of need to be looking at, especially with all the conversations you’ve had so far? Like, what are we missing? Maybe and where should pay attention?

Kiri Maree Moore  22:55

I think one of the interesting pieces was putting on my global human intelligence forum. In a time when it was the worst time in a lot of ways across the globe. There was so much racial tension at the time, if you said the wrong thing, there was Kancil culture. And so many of my colleagues and leaders and friends, were reaching out to me going, what do we say? How do we say it? Now I always pre sort of frame when I’m having a conversation, that I’m talking from my beliefs. I’m talking through the lens I’m looking through, and this is how I’m looking through it. And this is what I’m using in this conversation. And when I’m asking a question, actually, I don’t have any preconceived ideas to what I want you to answer. I just, I’m curious. And I think that we have to get more curious. We have to create an awareness and that comes with you being secure, confident with who you are knowing your own non negotiables, knowing what you stand for knowing what things that are okay for you. I call them your negotiables. And maybe if you and I have a conversation, and you convince me, I might even make that one of my non negotiables. Right. And I think so there’s this sense of an awareness and for only, only will we ever create that awareness if we are in a safe space. And I know people go I hate safe spaces. That’s what I mean by a safe space is that we are creating a safe space that you can come be seen, be heard and have a voice. And we have to do that more and whatever we’re building out in our culture that we are building out. We have to create this awareness and then we have to decide as individuals. What is it I’m owning meaning from what I’m aware of Now, then, how does that gonna affect the collective? And by the way, the collective that’s you and I, we make up the global space. So what we do affects the global space? Yeah, it’s as simple as that. It’s awareness, ownership, and then going from ownership, what is the change that I’m going to do be bring now put in place, so that actually a result is bought, or an outcome or a change is brought to the table? And I think, you know, we can’t change everyone else. But we can change how we do things, how we show up, what tables we’re willing to show up and the culture, we’re willing to build out how we, you know, we talk about these big, cool words like a knit, you know, inclusive, if you really go down into some of those conversations. How inclusive Are you being, when you have a table? Do they all look like you? Do they all sound like you? Are they thinking exactly I love working across different industries? Because I’m going to learn something new? Are we really willing to have a different conversation and do it differently? Or if you think differently, do we get rid of you eliminate you at the table? And say, No, that’s not what we’re doing here? Maybe it’s not what you’re doing there. But maybe it’s something you might need to consider. Get curious. Are we being curious enough in our conversations? Or are we coming with our own set agendas, our conditionings, our biases, systems that we’ve done it all this way for so long? It’s when we’re willing to do it differently, and have a new approach, then we will see different things happen at the table. Goumri.

Ronsley Vaz  26:49

Now that you’ve done so many podcast interviews, what would you wish you did at the start? And what kind of like tricks and tips you might have for someone starting off their journey right now?

Kiri Maree Moore  27:00

I like to make things as simple as possible. In other words, what do I feel comfortable doing? So there’s nothing stopping you from actually getting on with it, I love having conversations with really smart people. And I love having conversations with friends of mine, who are usually, by the way, really smart people. And I love having a coffee, and just or a glass of champagne, or wine or whatever. And if that makes it easy to have a really good conversation, then put that as part of it. When you already, just not this perfect human being that you’re just showing up. You’re just having a conversation. That means I can get it wrong. Sometimes it means I can say the wrong thing, even sometimes. And maybe sometimes just not say it right? If and what was stopping me as a newbie at it was, I was afraid I was gonna say the wrong thing. I was afraid that I would say things that people would get not take right? And get insulted with Yes, I’m decisive. Yes, I’m very straight up. But I’m only straight up because I really care for human beings. And I’m only not messing around because I just don’t have much time. And so I’m just trying to be really effective with my time, it can get misunderstood what I say sometimes, but I feel like nowadays, I actually know what I’m saying. I know where I’m heading. And like I said, if you want to come on that journey, come with me. But if you don’t, I’m really clear, stop listening. Just don’t come down on this, you know, like, don’t listen to this particular one. And I think if he can know that from the start, then you know, if you’re wanting really prim proper, very professional, then make sure you set it up in a way that you can actually deliver on that every time I travel the world. That means sometimes we’ve got to do the computer in front of me, not the proper camera. And but it depends on the internet, right? And it depends on what environment I can find myself in, I needed to be up to make sure that I wouldn’t let things like that stop me. And I think if you can know that from the start, that’s a really good thing. I think the other thing is, you don’t know who’s listening, boys. It’s been amazing. who reaches out to me going, Hey, by the way, I listened to this and I was wondering about that. And I was like, wow, I have no idea you were listening. How cool is that? And you don’t know who’s listening.

Ronsley Vaz  29:34

So cool. Like an Artist putting out their work and someone going oh, wow, that’s so nice. It’s such a gift. Thank you so much. Where can someone find you if they’re looking for you and how can they get in touch with you?

Kiri Maree Moore  29:46

You can find me just look at the 1% movement.com we are revamping everything right now and that is our Center for for connecting with us in our world. So the 1% movement outcome. And if anyone can, please go to the wall of humanity, which is join the 1% movement, and put your wealth 1% up on the wall, I can’t wait to hear what you’re doing, what that looks like when you do your 1% so that we can really support you, and make a difference and get a billion names up on the wall of humanity.

Ronsley Vaz  30:23

Love it. Thank you so much for making the time to do this. Thank you. All right. So you still till the end, you found this useful, and you have a business and you have a podcast and a business. And you kind of want to make it work for you and grow your business using this podcast will. You know what, that’s something that I have helped 1000s of people do and 1000s of businesses do in different forms, through an agency in a one on one fashion through a conference, in a group and obviously in courses and stuff. So please, I want to be able to give you something that you can use to get recurring results in your business using a podcast. We call it the recurring results roadmap. It is years of putting this in practice. It is the blueprint to get results in recurring results using your podcast if you’d like that, send me a message [email protected] I want to hear from you. I want to hear your voice or I want to hear from you. So if you’ve listened to this and you want that roadmap, please send me an email [email protected] I want to hear from you. Much love. I’ll see you in the next episode.

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