307. How grief can turn into a gift for your audience feat. Dr. Sherry Walling

Learn how grief can be a gift for your audience

Wondering how to have difficult conversations with your audience? Want to know how to approach it without getting onto a soapbox? This episode with Dr Sherry Walling goes into depths of how to approach talking about difficult topics on your podcast. Why it is important and the trust it builds with your audience who are going through similar things.

In this episode you will:

• Learn how Sherry has evolved as a podcast and learn her podcasting journey
• Understand why evolving as a podcaster is part of the journey
• Learn to evolve your podcast when you learn more with every episode
• Take a deeper look at how you learn as a podcaster
• We answer a question about maturing through the modality of podcasting
• Rethink your creation as a podcaster by doing the reps
• Understand how to become an information disseminator
• Hear us talk about how to present your information and when you are supposed to say nothing
• Learn how the foundations of news jacking and how you can get caught in what others are doing
• Think differently about writing a book and how to create with meaning
• We talk in-depth about covering topics that are taboo and are hard to talk about

All this and more, on this week’s episode of  Should I Start A Podcast.

Make sure you listen to the end … I’ll break down this episode to give you 3 small steps you can execute right now to help you take this listening experience into execution experience. Also, if you know a business owner that needs to hear an episode about why a podcast is the best business development tool, please share an episode with them.

Pretty Please. Enjoy the show.

After you listen to this episode I would love you to take these 3 small steps that will help you can turn grief into a gift your audience loves:

1. Journal … keep track in real time of the facts. We distort the truth, especially if we are hurting.
2. Ask the question, “what does this mean for my audience” … see what comes up. Nothing might, but if it does, honour it.
3. Make a list of 3-5 things you want to cover as a result of this event.

What you pick as your strategies to grow will depend on where you are at in your business. Pick the right strategy for where you are at and not where you want to be.

These are 3 small steps that if you execute, irrespective of where you are at in your business and podcasting journey will make a huge impact on your making your podcast more profitable & more impactful.

If this is the first episode you’ve listened to all the way to the end or if you are a regular, thank you … I love that you are here. Check out our back catalogue on  ShouldIStartAPodcast.com, subscribe to the show and give me a review and rating, it really helps us get found more.

If you are a business owner podcaster and want to join others just like you in a group where we share tactics & ideas on what’s working (or not) for us when it comes to using our podcast in the best possible way. For more on that go to wearepodcast.com/group … it is free.

We Are Podcast 2022 – It is happening this year. For the latest announcements on Australia’s first podcasting conference for business owners, join the free group wearepodcast.com/group

Stay tuned next week when we going to cover being a representative of the people who don’t have a voice with Coss Marte. We cover lots including the responsibilities of speaking up and showing up for the people you represent. So, don’t forget to subscribe to the show to get that episode as soon it gets released. Until then, much love.

 

Having worked with thousands of business owners to create a podcast for their business, I’ve created The Recurring Results Roadmap for Podcasters™.

It’s a step-by-step guide to growing your business to 7+ figures using your podcast.

Importantly, it removes the guesswork so you know exactly what to focus on at all times to generate that recurring revenue.

The best part? It’s personalised, free and it lets you get started straight away.

Download The Recurring Results Roadmap for Podcasters™ here.

If this is your first time here, this is Should I Start A Podcast. I’m Ronsley Vaz. Each week you’ll hear me, and a star-studded guest lineup, dig deep into the podcasting process. We’ll bring you tactics, tips and tricks to use in your own podcasting journey. We’ll teach you how to build an audience. And we’ll show you how to keep them coming back, show after show.

So if you want to start a podcast, or expand your current audience, this is the show for you.

Here is the transcript of the entire episode for those who like to read …

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

podcast, people, love, grief, psychedelics, conversation, world, book, business, loss, topics, feel, written, called, died, academic, talk, experience, life

SPEAKERS

Dr Sherry Walling, Ronsley Vaz, Anna Vocino

Ronsley Vaz  00:08

indicator one this is launch control. Please advise when the pre flight checklist is complete with indicator one flight is complete. All indicators read Green.

Anna Vocino  00:20

This is should I start a podcast a show for business owners looking for tips, tricks and ingenious hacks when it comes to growing a business using their podcast. This is your host Ronsley. He’s interviewed more than 1400 people and has been listened to over 5 million times in 133 countries, a TED speaker, author and a podcast purist who believes that we can use our voices to grow our business and our influence, you know, because every conversion in any business always happens in a conversation and now Ronsley.

Ronsley Vaz  01:03

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of should I start a podcast today I have a treat for you. I have Dr. Sherry walling in the house, and she is all sorts of amazing. We’re going to talk about her new book, we’re going to talk about her podcast, we’re going to talk about her journey as a podcaster putting a voice out there talking about things that really really are hard to talk about and how she gets around doing that. Also, if you’re a business owner, podcaster, and you have a case study on how our podcast is, like, hindered or grown your business or helped your business grow. I’d love to hear that and feature you on the show. So send me a DM and I would love to see what you’ve been doing with your podcast. Anyway, today’s guests, Dr. Sherry Walling, she hosts a bunch of podcasts, the one that I love is Zen founder. And it’s an amazing show for entrepreneurs, especially ones that know that the mind is such an important part of their output, I suppose and how they show up. And she’s now the host of mine curious podcast exploring psychedelics, which is really cool that I want to talk about that. But I also want to talk to her about her new book, which I got just before I left the US it’s called touching two worlds. Ladies and gentlemen, Dr. Sherry Walling, how you sherry.

Dr Sherry Walling  02:22

Hey, Ronsley, I am delighted to be in conversation with you. Thanks for having me.

Ronsley Vaz  02:27

So cool. Thank you for indulging me in my experiments. I am constantly finding ways to have these conversations in situations that allows me to ask them questions that I don’t know how it’s going to start off before the conversation. And I kind of allow myself to kind of be in this moment and be present, which is, which is actually a treat for me. So thank you for being here. Let’s talk about your journey as a podcaster. How has what was it like when you first started? Has that changed in the way you you express yourself? Has the topics changed? Just if you could give us a brief overview of your life as a podcaster that

Dr Sherry Walling  03:08

would be great. Okay, my life as a podcaster I began a podcast called parenting reimagined, probably about 10 years ago. So it was a little bit of an earlier on podcast, but I was really in the midst of my own journey. I was a university professor, I had already had my PhD gotten my PhD. And I just had my second child. And I felt a little bit lost in my world of being a very sort of high functioning high level of professional and also having very young children. I’m so I did a podcast where I interviewed parents all about their different sort of experiences of transformation related to parenting. And honestly, it was very much for me, it was conversations I wanted to have. But it really helped me to understand kind of the framework of podcasting. It was sort of a trial run, I should say. And then a few years later, I started the podcast called Zen founder, which was really based in my perceived need for there to be more thoughtful conversations about mental health within the entrepreneurial community. So I originally started it with my husband, Rob, who was an entrepreneur, so he’s the entrepreneur tech entrepreneur, and I’m the clinical psychologist. And together we you know, exchange conversation around entrepreneurship and mental health. And that has been going strong for I guess we’re probably around 350 episodes these days.

Ronsley Vaz  04:32

When you think of that journey as when you started off. How has Zen found a change since episode one?

Dr Sherry Walling  04:41

Yeah, it changed a lot. I mean, one of the most, like practical changes is that it started as a conversation between my husband Rob and I, with the sort of two different perspectives and dialogue and I think we did that for about 100 episodes. And then I feel like I wanted to take the podcast in a different direction. And so he retired from the podcast, and I took it on. And it’s also changed a lot. somatically. Like, I think it started as these very, like quick tips and tactics to help with mental health. And we still do some of those episodes, but I’ve really found it, like more satisfying to do a deeper dive into more complicated topics. So I would say the themes of the podcast have matured over time.

Ronsley Vaz  05:28

So did you feel like those initial conversations allowed you to refine your thoughts, your arguments, and then put them together in a way that you want to tackle? Like, I suppose, more complicated topics, if for the lack of another way to explain that?

Dr Sherry Walling  05:44

Yeah, I think I was learning how to podcast right learning to use my voice in that way. Learning what I felt comfortable disclosing more publicly in that domain, learning what was sticky for people, what was interesting. And so the whole process is a process of elimination, and also a process of my own maturing with the modality.

Ronsley Vaz  06:06

So let’s talk about that maturing through the modality. I love how you put that because I feel I mean, I’ve been doing this for 10 years. That’s crazy, because Facebook just reminded me that the other day, and I’ve seen a lot of that. I mean, it’s a very personal thing to put your voice out there. And this is something I’d love to chat with you about today is like, when you do care about something, how do you remove all the other stuff to just get the reps in, so that you’re kind of at least getting the reps in, as opposed to getting it perfect all the time? And, and is there a way to kind of change perspective, in those moments,

Dr Sherry Walling  06:45

there’s this little video by Ira Glass, who is the host of one of my favorite radio shows This American Life. And he in this video talks about how in the beginning, there’s a gap between your taste as a creator, and your ability as the creator. So for a while, you’re gonna just make a lot of stuff that’s not as good as your taste, right that you don’t particularly love, because you’re putting in the reps, as you say. And you’re also going to spend a lot of time editing and tinkering and adjusting and trying to perfect. And that does get easier over time. I also think that for me, I came to the world of podcasting as an academic, I literally was a college professor. And when I resigned from my teaching job, I really dove deeply into podcasting. And so I think I started as sort of this teacher like information disseminator. And although that’s valuable, I really learned that that wasn’t what really mattered to my audience. And so now I see myself more as a storyteller. And as someone who is mindful of research and science, but really putting my heart and my personal experience more into the forefront of the stories that I tell in a way that allows for deeper connection.

Ronsley Vaz  08:03

There are a few things that you mentioned in there, one of them is being in academia, being an academic, and then getting into this world where anything works. What has that been like for you? What does that transition like for you?

Dr Sherry Walling  08:16

Well, I stick to my academic chops in the sense that I do think it’s important that information go through some kind of filter, right. One of the dangers of podcasting, one of the downsides is that anybody with a mic can become an influencer, or anybody with a microphone can be passed off as an expert. And sometimes that’s really damaging. And so I think in my work, I do try to adhere to some of the techniques of science, which things like cite your sources, and make sure that ideas that you are presenting have, you’re presenting that maybe there’s more than one way to think about it, or you’re giving a sense of where that knowledge or research comes from. So that’s still important to me as a foreign academic and recovery.

Ronsley Vaz  09:03

And so it shouldn’t be I mean, that’s the reason I asked is because there is so much information out there. And I was back in in India in Goa, seeing my parents go through WhatsApp every morning with fake news that people have sent them which and getting worked up about it and not knowing the difference between what is real news and what has just been sent to them. So I feel like you know, you thought me something really amazing. And I don’t know whether you even know that you did it. When Black Lives Matter happened. I asked you about whether you had any thoughts on what you wanted to say about it. And I think you said to me this sometimes that you’re not supposed to say anything and you’re just supposed to just sit and listen. I think he just said that in passing it I’d really took that on. Because I feel like in today’s world, when something happens it’s almost like a knee jerk reaction that we’ve got to respond in some way. And sometimes we just don’t need to respond. And I wonder whether that happens to you. And when was the last time that happened?

Dr Sherry Walling  10:13

I really relate to that weight of feeling like maybe because you’ve been public about a certain topic that anything subsequent to that topic you feel like you have to weigh in on. But I do think there’s wisdom and making sure you’re only speaking when you really have something thoughtful to say, like, not just chiming in, unless your contribution is something that you’re proud of. And that’s meaningful to you. No, I’m really thoughtful about that. I think one so as a mental health practitioner, whenever there’s a someone dies by suicide or by overdose in the news, I think people will sometimes be like, are you going to say anything? Or are you going to comment on that. And, I mean, often these are individual lives lost in a very tragic way. And I don’t know, the humans like I don’t, I don’t have some wonderful insight into why a particular rock star may have died in a certain way. And so I have to really go through my own integrity about whether I have something really to contribute or whether I would just be a talking head that sort of, I guess, succumbing to the pressure of other people to make some noise about a certain topic,

Ronsley Vaz  11:25

I think they call it newsjacking. These days, where you kind of like find something topical and, and use it to, to get attention to what you do. And unfortunately, again, because these lines are being we don’t know what these lines are. I mean, in the social media world, we’re still trying to figure the social world out. And sometimes people take you know, situations in their life and use it for really good purposes, like, touching two worlds, which my God, what a book. I mean, I’m not, I’m not, I’m only halfway through. And I have posted notes everywhere. And what I’d love to first talk about is, when you’re when you’re writing, touching two worlds, how did you allow something so difficult to pass through you? Like how did you not let the weight of what you were you were going through, which is really outline and I can feel I can feel what you were going through when I read it? How did you let that not getting in the way? And how did you let that come through you? And what was your process of expression? Like?

Dr Sherry Walling  12:30

Yeah, and just to give listeners context, titling two worlds is a memoir. And it’s also kind of a psychological analysis that was written really about my experience of losing my father to cancer and my brother to suicide and a really in within six months of each other. So in a tight timeline, and so I had this sort of couple year period of my life where my life was very much about their sickness and their illness and their need for care and support. And then it was very much about grief after they died. And Rawnsley, I the honest truth is that this book was a book that wanted to be written. And I was kind of like the vessel. I mean, it was written at like three in the morning when I couldn’t sleep. It was written on airplanes, it was written here in there. And whenever I had a thought, or a question that was bothering me, and I felt like I needed to record it somewhere. So the book is very much. It’s very personal. It’s very intimate to my experience, but it’s gone through this, these different iterations of being something that I wanted to give to other peoples. You know, I think of like, see, you know, somebody like you where it’s like, I’m leaving you a little note like, like, dear Ronsley, I’m sorry to tell you that someday you’ll lose people that you love. I hope that doesn’t happen, but it will. And in the event that it does, here’s the things that I learned from my own experience. And I’ve just written them down for you. And so that’s sort of the tone of the book.

14:07

Hey, this is Sandy waters. I’m a radio host for over 20 years and help people sound better on their podcast. I’m on the inside of we are podcast members, or as we like to call it the way Moe, if you were thinking about growing that business using your podcast and your online presence, come join us on the inside. I would love to meet you, James and Ronsley. They coach us to get those recurring results in our business. If you want that roadmap, which we all follow to get those recurring results, you can download [email protected] are podcast.com. Now, here’s why.

Ronsley Vaz  14:45

It’s so beautifully written. I mean, it’s like nothing I’ve read before in terms of how its presented and how you’ve managed to present some of the topics in here. How did you organize these thoughts or were they just random at at the start and And later when there was stuff coming together, that’s when you started to organize them. What was that process like?

Dr Sherry Walling  15:05

I guess the simplest iteration, or the simplest beginning point was really it was sort of my journal. There were also a few of the essays that were taken from Facebook posts, which I feel a little bit embarrassed to admit. But when I was in the middle of these losses, especially my dad’s loss, because he had been very public about his experience with cancer, and so I was writing as well about my experience with his cancer. And we were sharing that with our various, you know, family members, and friends and communities. And so I collected all of these journal entries and all of these Facebook posts. And then I went back through his essays on caringbridge, and other places that he had written about his losses. And there wasn’t any great magic to organizing it, except that I knew that I wanted to reflect on my Dad’s experience, on my brother’s experience, somewhat separately, and then to think about the two losses in tension with each other or in, you know, I guess together, a lot of people experience what we call like cumulative loss where they’ve lost one or more people, especially in light of the pandemic, a lot of people experienced multiple losses. And I wanted to speak to that unique experience as well.

Ronsley Vaz  16:19

Yeah, I mean, I lost my grandma to COVID, two days, and she passed on, and this particular grandmother has been dying for over 20 years, every time we see her, she’s like, Hey, this is the last time and we’re like, No, you will be fine. And the hardest part about that, I suppose, is a unique situation that you were talking about. And just to sort of give that a little bit of a voice at this moment. She has like, she’s been dying for 20 years, like she’s she’s prepared, she had a bag of what she wanted to be buried in, and all this kind of stuff. But because she had COVID, that couldn’t honor those things, which would have meant a lot to her, which kind of becomes this really crazy thing that we get caught up about, I get caught up in my mom got caught up in with his like, you know, it’s been something that we couldn’t change. But I suppose everyone is going through that kind of loss, and that kind of, you know, different nuanced situations, during when they lose someone. How I mean, I know you mentioned in the book, but what would you give someone right now if if the they are like watching this? And, and considering this and maybe going through it silently? What are some of the thoughts that you like, allow them to have a perspective that could help them,

Dr Sherry Walling  17:38

one of the things that really stood out to me, was the centrality of love in the presence of grief. Right? Whenever we’re grieving something, whether it’s a person or the loss of a plan, the loss of a job, the loss of a dream, it’s our, it’s our love for that person or thing that then becomes the inverse of grief. So grief is sort of the shadow of love. And I for some reason that I found that to be very comforting and helpful to sort of recognize, like, Oh, I’m in some pain, because of the depths of love that I had for these family members. And that helped it to feel like difficulty with a purpose, right difficulty with meaning behind it. I also want to acknowledge that I think grief is really, really isolating for people, even members of the same family who are affected by the same loss, feel differently about it, process it differently. And so it can be a time where people feel really lonely. And I want to acknowledge that because I think it’s sort of normal. And it can be a time of going very internal, kind of like a dark night of the soul, which is not pleasant to be in but can have this transformational power. If you listen to it. If you lean into it, if you sort of curiously notice what’s there.

Ronsley Vaz  19:01

You know, what, one of the first chapters in your book, I love this exercise, about taking a moment to write down the timeline of your grief. I thought that was just absolutely brilliant, because it does. I mean, I majored in psychology. So I get some of the things that are happening in that one in that exercise because it’s so it gets you out of your head, that vicious circle of what you make up right and just having it down as a timeline in facts is so powerful.

Dr Sherry Walling  19:28

Yeah, it sort of takes it from being right in here and you can look at it out on the page in front of you. I also think for most of us, it gives an appreciation for like, wow, I’ve been through some things like you know, even this in the loss of your grandmother, like you know, there was a phone call, there was a day of waiting, there was a you know many conversations with family members about what to do and you know, all of those pieces actually matter to how you feel about the story, not just the simple one line of like my grandmother died of COVID. So appreciate Hearing the nuance and the complexity, I think can create some self compassion. It’s not about wallowing by any means, but it’s about honoring the story.

Ronsley Vaz  20:08

Yeah. And just looking at the facts for what what they are, I mean, I thought that was truly amazing and truly inspired. And for everyone listening, I recommend the chapter on how to talk to grieving people, it’s only six pages long. And it is absolutely worth every word in here, because a lot of us go through grief, and we don’t know how to deal with it when someone else is going through it. So what we do is we ignore it, and we kind of make small talk. And this is such a good, it was only six pages, but it’s so useful for someone that, you know, you can actually feel like, you can help as opposed to sometimes when someone’s going through a hard time you think that if you say something, you might make it worse? And is that a normal feeling? Or is that just sort of us trying to make ourselves feel, give us an excuse, or a way out to not sort of dealing with a difficult situation?

Dr Sherry Walling  21:02

I think well, meaning people don’t know what to say. And I think, you know, if you if you’re greeting someone say that we were getting together for some coffee, and you sit down and you do the little small talk exchange, and it’s going well, and no one’s crying. And no one’s done this like spiral into grief. The the tendency, then is to say, Okay, I’m not going to bring it up. Like, we’re not going to talk about my dad, dad or your dead grandmother, we’re just going to like, proceed, like, what books have you been reading? What movies have you watched lately? Because I think we’re afraid of introducing emotional complexity, or potentially sadness into the story, when let’s be honest, it’s not like, we’ve forgotten about our dead loved ones. It’s, it’s right there in the back of our minds, we’re not unaware. And so I think it’s sort of this weird misdirected compassion, you know, you want to not upset someone. But in the end, I think we often end up like, kind of ignoring or not honoring what they’re living in. And so I think the best way to do that is to do it with a lot of choice, which is to say something like, Hey, would you like to tell me a story about your grandmother, or, Hey, I know you’ve just had this loss in your life, I would love to listen if you feel like talking about it. And so the permission that we give when we phrase things like that helps to restore a sense of choice, which is important.

Ronsley Vaz  22:28

I love what you’ve done with this book. Thank you so much for writing it. I mean, I can’t even imagine what it was like to actually go through some of the things I can’t actually imagine because I feel it when I read it. But I mean, I’ve not lost a dad, or a sibling. And I feel immense sense of gratefulness, that I didn’t have to go through that yet. But I can only read what you’ve written here. And imagine how hard it must have been, I constantly think about you as an inspiring figure. And I found out about the new podcast mine cure, and I find how is academic getting into psychedelics? How is that working for you and what is going through your mind when you’re doing that

Dr Sherry Walling  23:12

all of the academics are doing it. Not, I’m not new at all. So literally, there are over 80 new centers of excellence at academic medical schools in the US that are focused on clinical research related to psychedelics, places like Johns Hopkins, Harvard Medical School, UC San Francisco, UCLA, like all of the all of the big names are really curiously exploring this new science about old tools that have looks like very significant power to help alleviate a variety of mental health concerns. So I wish I could say I was like some novel cutting edge academic, but I’m not, I’m just kind of like on the bandwagon. And the reason I’m on the bandwagon is because the research is also really sound, there are an increasing number of really well done robust clinical studies that point to the likelihood that psychedelics can be really, really helpful in alleviating PTSD, anxiety, addictive disorders, which are, you know, actually very difficult to treat, and a whole host of other kind of mood and anxiety related issues.

Ronsley Vaz  24:24

And when you’re doing this work, what is the most surprising sort of research you’ve come across? Because I don’t know whether, for me, it was the first time in Park City that I was exposed to the idea of entrepreneurship and psychedelics and in 2018, and I find that it’s come leaps and bounds since then, but it has changed my mind a lot along the way. What are the some of the like research and some of the studies that have been done that? Absolutely. I mean, it blew my mind back then. I’m sure there are new ones now. But what are the stuff that comes to mind for you with this, the results that we can see with psychedelic

Dr Sherry Walling  25:00

Yeah, one of my favorite studies to think about and talk about is a study that was published in the New England Journal of Medicine. So very reputable journal by a research team that was led by Robin Carhartt. Harris, who was at that time in London, and is now at UC San Francisco. But this study compared SSRIs. So selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, which are kind of this standard, like medicine for depression, and SSRIs, are very, very commonly prescribed. One of the challenges with SSRIs is that they narrow both edges of the emotion spectrum. So if you think about emotion as a spectrum, maybe you’ve got sad on one end and happy on the other end, SSRI sort of bring in the edges in both directions, one at this. So the study compared to psilocybin, which is the sort of active ingredient in magic mushrooms, compare that to SSRIs. And they found that psilocybin was effective at eliminating the depressive symptoms like minimizing that depths of sadness that people with major depression were experiencing, without turning down the other end of the spectrum. So without compromising a sense of joy, or happiness, or pleasure. And the reason that I think that is so important is because it’s that end of the spectrum of the emotional experience that really creates a lot of our catalysts to stay alive, to be creative, to really engage in our lives. And when we numb that out, I think we really put people at risk for suicide, and we put people at risk to not really flourish in their lives. So if there’s something that we can do that helps people feel less depressed, without losing their spark of joy, that is a really amazing innovation in mental health care from where I sit.

Ronsley Vaz  27:00

The reason I want to talk about all these things, I mean, grief, psychedelics, mental health, these are all topics that you’ve picked, that are difficult to talk about. And I wonder how does the podcast fit into this? The How does it help you get these conversations, get get into these topics? And how does that layer into the business

Dr Sherry Walling  27:21

because my work, whether it’s talking about mental health concerns, or talking about psychedelics, or talking about death, like those are all as you’re identifying, like, sort of difficult conversations to have, you don’t always know who to ask, maybe you’re curious about psychedelics, but like, do ask your doctor, like, where do you have that conversation. And so I think podcasting is a really lovely way for people to get information here ideas, hear personal experiences, he’ll hear stories and interviews. From a business perspective, though, certainly then founder is a comprehensive body of work about entrepreneurship in mental health, that doesn’t really exist. In other places. There are now you know, many podcasts that talk about mindset, or mental well being for entrepreneurs, but I was one of the first. And so this body of work really is the foundation that I stand on, which says, I have a PhD, I have all of this training and all of this experience. And look, here’s all of the things that I know and that I’ve been talking about for years and doing it in public. And I think that really creates for my, you know, my professional brand, it creates a sense of like esteem, or just established an established narrative that I think has been really helpful for my business.

Ronsley Vaz  28:46

What I would love to do right now is sort of talk about the mistake that business owners make, which is not ID three tagging their mp3 file. But what I’d love to ask you on the back end of that, is some of the some of the psychological tactics that you might have for getting us out of our own way to express ourselves and the things that really matter to us. And putting ourselves out there, I suppose, is probably one of those things and, and how we can do that most effectively.

Dr Sherry Walling  29:12

One of the tactics that I find most important is this very simple mantra of it’s not about you. And when you are, I know this one works for you to run Sawyer, we talked about it with your TED Talk. But I know that when you are in your own head, it’s not often the place that’s most helpful to you. So I think about someone, an individual human that I want to talk to, about this idea that I have, maybe it’s a client who’s struggling with a problem. Maybe it’s a family member who’s having a difficult time. And I really like envision that human in my head, and I imagined talking to them when I jump on the mic, so that it isn’t really about me, it’s about the service and the insights and the support that I provide other people. And I think that helps me get out of my way enough to just sit down and do the work, what kind

Ronsley Vaz  30:06

of tips you have for someone that is new to the world of podcasting, and just starting out

Dr Sherry Walling  30:11

the freedom to be creatively who you are. And if you can find your your little joyful part of it amazing, it’s not joyful for you, then I would probably spend your time doing something else.

Ronsley Vaz  30:24

I would love to ask you where people can find you. Where would you like people to connect with you.

Dr Sherry Walling  30:29

So you can find I’m easy to find on the internet. I’m at sharing Wildling on Twitter and Instagram. And my my new book is called touching two worlds. And I have touching two worlds.com, which has some cool videos and just background story about that book. I have another book called The Entrepreneurs guys keeping your shit together. And then of course, the podcasts and founder, I love

Ronsley Vaz  30:53

your work. I love you as a person and the way you show up. And thank you for constantly being a mentor to me, even though you don’t really realize you are thank you for all the work you do. And thank you for indulging me in this experiment and having having you on my show. Thank you. All right. So you still till the end, you found this useful, and you have a business and you have a podcast and a business. And you kind of want to make it work for you and grow your business using this podcast will you know what, that’s something that I have helped 1000s of people do 1000s of businesses doing different forms, through an agency in a one on one fashion through a conference in a group and obviously courses and stuff. So please, I want to be able to give you something that you can use to get recurring results in your business using a podcast. We call it the recurring results roadmap. It is years of putting this in practice. It is the blueprint to get results in recurring results using our podcast if you’d like that, send me a message [email protected] I want to hear from you. I want to hear your voice or I want to hear from you. So if you’ve listened to this and you want that roadmap, please send me an email [email protected] I want to hear from you. Much love. I’ll see you in the next episode.

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